Wednesday, August 26, 2009

Odd Reaction to my Inglorious Basterd Review

Odd Reaction to my Inglorious Basterd Review

A couple of interesting things about my Inglorious Basterd review.

One of the places that I cross-post reviews to is CRZ's the-w message board, the heir to the very first message board that I first posted to and wrote for which indirectly led to me writing for the IWS. One of the neat features of the-w message board is the they track referrals that searched and found threads on the board. As an example here are the tracked referrals for my Inglorious Baterd review.

It is pretty natural to click on some of those Google searches to see what else they lead to, which lead me to discover two things:

1) On the message board of cinemablend.com a user named pauljeremiah basically copied my Inglorious Basterds review verbatim. Here is the cache of the page, since PJ has since erased his post once he was busted.

2) On a translation message board, a discussion sprang up about the pun that I identified in my review.

Inglorious Basterds
August 24, 2009 8:30 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Michael Barnett

I saw the film the other day, enjoying it thoroughly.

Today I read this viewer review at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361748/usercomments and was wondering if any German or Italian speaking film-goers had noticed similar details which they could share.

Excerpt of the review:
Case in point, during the opening sequence the Nazi "Jew Hunter" SS Colonel Hans Landa (Christian Waltz) is interrogating French dairy farmer Perrier LaPadite (Denis Menochet). Landa suspects that LaPadite is hiding a family of Jews. While subtly pressuring LaPadite, Landa asks for a glass of milk. After greedily gulping it down, Landa compliments LaPadite on his daughters and his cows, "Mes compliments a vos filles et vos vaches." The thing of it is, in French "vache" means cow, but it is also a vulgar name for the vagina. If reprimanded for this vulgar pun, Landa could quite convincingly claim not to understand French well enough to have meant it that way, but Landa does mean it that way and he means it as a threat. And LaPadite understands his meaning all too well.

That is a really subtle piece of acting and word-play that many audiences would never catch, or at least they might understand the subtext without knowing the exact nature of the threat. The film is rich with that kind of detail. All of the French and English dialogue is chosen with that same attention to detail and while I can't swear to the German, I would suspect that it shows a similar level of craft.


Michael
Inglorious Basterds | ???
August 25, 2009 6:06 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Sylvain Leray
Post title: ???

Michael Barnett wrote:

After greedily gulping it down, Landa compliments LaPadite on his daughters and his cows, "Mes compliments a vos filles et vos vaches." The thing of it is, in French "vache" means cow, but it is also a vulgar name for the vagina.


I don't know where you read or heard that, but to me it would be absolutely new !! I'm pretty sure that "vache" never had this meaning for anyone in France!
Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Inglorious Basterds | "Vache"
August 25, 2009 6:13 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Lingua 5B
Post title: "Vache"

I haven't been aware of this reference for "vache" either. Anything to do with Canadian French perhaps? Or some contemporary slang?

Maybe you confused animals, it's supposed to be la chatte, not la vache.

:lol:
Inglorious Basterds | Landa's French
August 25, 2009 6:17 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: FarkasAndras
Post title: Landa's French

I don't know about that... it would be a strange pun to make and I don't think Landa, the eternal gentleman who purposefully left his men a good 20 metres from the house when he went in would get so direct and vulgar. Complimenting his beautiful wife & daughters is more than enough of a distant, veiled threat I think.
I don't speak French at all so I don't know if the pun works and I can't tell how good Landa's French is.

Talking about puns, does anyone know why they called the film Inglourious basterds? I find the title pointless and terrible, but maybe there is some sort of a meaning I just don't get.
Inglorious Basterds | Not in Canadian French either...
August 25, 2009 6:24 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Marie-Claude Falardeau
Post title: Not in Canadian French either...

Nope, no such meaning in Canadian French either. It would be new to me as well ;)
Inglorious Basterds
August 25, 2009 7:42 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Lingua 5B

FarkasAndras wrote:

Talking about puns, does anyone know why they called the film Inglourious basterds? I find the title pointless and terrible, but maybe there is some sort of a meaning I just don't get.

You typed one extra "u" ( the first one) in inglorious, or is that intended? BastErds is intentional isn't it?

I couldn't tell, as I haven't seen the movie. The title represents the entire film / broad context so it would be useful to know the film before discussing the title.

Other than that, what isn't clear in " inglorious basterds" ? the intentional misspelling of basterds has its sarcastic purpose.., and I presume it also serves the plot and general language style used in the film. Anything else? Personally, I find this phrasal and eclectic combination of a formal archaic word ( inglorious) and modern slang word ( basterds) quite entertaining.
Inglorious Basterds | Film title ...
August 25, 2009 8:45 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: savtrad
Post title: Film title ..
.
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Tarantino when asked why he chose to misspell the words in the title of the film:

'Inglourious Basterds' comes from long line of tricky, touchy titles

Quentin Tarantino isn't saying why he spelled the title of his Second World War adventure, "Inglourious Basterds," the way he did. The writer-director is enjoying having a little fun with his audience, similar to the way he credited himself and Uma Thurman, with whom he co-wrote the "Kill Bill" movies, by their initials Q and U.
"I'm never going to explain that," Tarantino said during a news conference in May at the Cannes Film Festival, where "Inglourious Basterds" premiered. "When you do an artistic flourish like that, to describe it, to explain it, would just . . . invalidate the whole stroke in the first place. (Artist Jean-Michel) Basquiat takes the letter L from a hotel room door and sticks it in his painting," he added. "If he describes why he did it, he might as well not have done it at all."
Inglorious Basterds | Characters
August 25, 2009 9:42 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Lingua 5B
Post title: Characters

I have no clue about the movie, synopsis and characters other than what I've read in this thread. I haven't googled anything either.

As for the specific language in movies or drama in general, it can be used purposely to match the character. That said, I would say that kind of misspelling would match a mediocre Joe who can't spell and is uneducated, never read a book in his life, or maybe the mockery of such people. Shakespeare used that a lot, that is using various language forms for different characters.

It can also be a tool to attract media attention without any hidden meaning whatsoever. He may be testing the waters and the audience. People like to think there is a hidden mysterious meaning behind everything. And now he has all these journalists asking the question so he can say " I won't tell ya" ..
Hmmm...
Inglorious Basterds | Vaches
August 25, 2009 10:06 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Michael Barnett
Post title: Vaches

When I saw the film I too was not aware of the "pun".

Reading the review, I wondered how much more of the film I had actually missed, which prompted my post.

Michael
Inglorious Basterds | Well
August 25, 2009 11:30 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Sylvain Leray
Post title: Well

Michael Barnett wrote:

When I saw the film I too was not aware of the "pun".

Reading the review, I wondered how much more of the film I had actually missed, which prompted my post.

Michael


For this part you didn't miss anything - I'm 98% sure there is no such pun in French.
Inglorious Basterds | title
August 25, 2009 2:49 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: FarkasAndras
Post title: title

Lingua 5B wrote:

Other than that, what isn't clear in " inglorious basterds" ? the intentional misspelling of basterds has its sarcastic purpose.., and I presume it also serves the plot and general language style used in the film.


I just find it dumb and annoying. Yes, Brad Pitt's character and his men are not exactly the university professor types, so you could easily imagine them making that sort of a mistake - in fact, they do, I just found out that it is scratched into somebody's rifle stock. But that doesn't make it any less of a horrible title... and, although I'm not a native speaker, I can't really imagine anyone misspelling inglorious as inglourious.
Anyway, the rifle thing clears it up: it's just a "Look at me!" title that tries to be original or something, there is no pun or other reference... Bleh.
The film is very good, though. It's dark, cruel and bloody, but it is very good.
Inglorious Basterds | Well
Inglorious Basterds | For the sake of accuracy...
August 25, 2009 4:56 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Nadejda Vega Cespedes
Post title: For the sake of accuracy...

...he said, "à votre famille et à vos vaches, je dis bravo."
Inglorious Basterds | The title
August 25, 2009 6:17 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Michael Barnett
Post title: The title

FarkasAndras wrote:

Talking about puns, does anyone know why they called the film Inglourious basterds? I find the title pointless and terrible, but maybe there is some sort of a meaning I just don't get.


I think the spelling is pure whimsy.

The reference to the vache pun was the film reviewer's not mine. I thought that perhaps it was a French expression unfamiliar to Canadian francophones. On reflection and after discussion with one of my Quebecois patients, I think one might translate "vache" as "bitch", but not "vagina". In English, if one calls a woman a "cow" it means essentially that she is obese.
Inglorious Basterds | For the sake of accuracy 2
August 25, 2009 7:02 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Özden Arıkan
Post title: For the sake of accuracy 2

Michael, you've misspelled the movie title in your thread title :-)
Inglorious Basterds | Wrong
August 25, 2009 7:22 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Arnaud HERVE
Post title: Wrong

A whole thread for an assumption that was absolutely and completely wrong at the start.

Could the OP mention where he got the idea that "vaches" had that meaning? I would not be surprised if he was the only person in the world thinking that "vaches" has that meaning in French slang.
Inglorious Basterds | Title
August 25, 2009 9:27 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Michael Barnett
Post title: Title

Özden Arıkan wrote:

Michael, you've misspelled the movie title in your thread title :-)


Are you referring to the incorrect spelling that was deliberate or the correct spelling which was a mistake? :-)

Michael
Inglorious Basterds | Cow = obese?????
August 26, 2009 3:33 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Marie-Hélène Hayles
Post title: Cow = obese?????

Michael Barnett wrote:
In English, if one calls a woman a "cow" it means essentially that she is obese.


Since when, exactly? It certainly doesn't mean that in British English! It's more synonymous with bitch - I wouldn't associate it in any way at all with a reference to weight, unless used in combination with "fat". But even then it's not the "cow" bit of the insult that's referring to weight.

Anyway, to drag my post back on topic, here's a link to the Guardian critic's review of the film. I haven't seen it, but he didn't like it much, to put things mildly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/aug/19/inglourious-basterds-review-brad-pitt-quentin-tarantino
Inglorious Basterds | Quel maledetto treno blindato (Enzo G. Castellari, 1978)
August 26, 2009 6:23 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Michael J.W. Beijer
Post title: Quel maledetto treno blindato (Enzo G. Castellari, 1978)


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076584/

Inglorious Basterds | To the correct spelling which was a mistake, of course :-)
August 26, 2009 9:39 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Özden Arıkan
Post title: To the correct spelling which was a mistake, of course :-)

Michael Barnett wrote:

Özden Arıkan wrote:

Michael, you've misspelled the movie title in your thread title :-)


Are you referring to the incorrect spelling that was deliberate or the correct spelling which was a mistake? :-)

Michael


Admittedly, I realized it -the movie title- was "inglourious" only after seeing this thread, which, in turn, was one week later than making everybody laugh at me in the theatre with a comment like "Oh, Germans misspelled the 'bastard'" :D
Inglorious Basterds | Correct
August 26, 2009 9:40 AM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: Lawyer-Linguist
Post title: Correct

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:

Since when, exactly? It certainly doesn't mean that in British English! It's more synonymous with bitch - I wouldn't associate it in any way at all with a reference to weight, unless used in combination with "fat". But even then it's not the "cow" bit of the insult that's referring to weight.


I should know, I've been called it on more than one occasion :-)
Inglorious Basterds | No "fat" needed
August 26, 2009 8:07 PM
Forum: Off topic
Topic: Inglorious Basterds
Poster: David Russi
Post title: No "fat" needed

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
Michael Barnett wrote:
In English, if one calls a woman a "cow" it means essentially that she is obese.

Since when, exactly? It certainly doesn't mean that in British English! It's more synonymous with bitch - I wouldn't associate it in any way at all with a reference to weight, unless used in combination with "fat". But even then it's not the "cow" bit of the insult that's referring to weight.



No "fat" needed on the US side of the Atlantic:

Webster's
cow
2 : a person clumsy, ***obese***, coarse, or otherwise unpleasant; sometimes : PROSTITUTE

I do agree, however with the assessment given in the Guardian, this is a well acted but mediocre film, and though it did hold my attention, I left irritated at the hollowness of what I had just seen, not to mention the feeling (I don't know how to show this) that somehow American cultural attitudes of the present were being superimposed on German and French characters of 60+ years ago. And the "revenge of the Jews" argument just does not make sense to me...

An interesting discussion, although to me a little bewidering, since I have heard vache used as a slang for vagina in Montreal, Ottawa and in both New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

Here is my full response on that message board:

Hi

I'm the guy who wrote the review being quoted. The imdb review is an excerpt of my full review from my blog: http://llakor.blogspot.com/2009/07/fantasia-film-fest-review-inglorious.html

My background is that I am half-Acadian and half-Quebec Irish born in Quebec and raised in Montreal, the Quebec Laurentians, Ottawa, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

In all the places that I have lived "vache" has been a vulgar term for vagina in the French and Acadian communities. Typically around here vache is pronounced approximately "vaash" and the vag from vagin is pronounced "vaaje" so it is very close. (And around here in English vag ("vaj") is used as a verbal shorthand for vagina as well.)

***

I obviously can't speak for the French of France, just my own community.

But it's not like I was the only person that got the reference either. When I saw the film with 700 people at the sold-out Canadian premiere in Montreal to close out the Fantasia Film Festival that line was greeted with a half-groan, half-boo from the majority of the crowd - one of the reasons why it stuck with me. (Although when I was writing up the review at 2am that night I didn't quite get the quote right.)

There are some other references that pop out through the French, the most notable one that I can think of happens when Shosanna is sparring with Zoller outside her cinema and says that the French honour directors which references the fact that Tarantino has always been well-treated by the French especially at Cannes. There may very well be word-play hidden in the German, supposedly Tom Twyker helped with the German dialogue.

***

That whole opening sequence is built on the sub-text of rape and murder. LaPadite plays a shell game with his daughters, trying to keep them away from the Nazis, sending them into their home, then when forced to by Landa inviting Landa in alone with his daughters, then again when forced to sending his girls out to be alone with the Nazi soldiers. And for a gentleman, Landa rather deliberately leers at LaPadite's youngest daughter.

My recollection is that Landa has three soldiers and LaPadite has three daughters (no wife from what I remember) which would be a very deliberate mirror by Tarantino emphasized at the end when Landa goes to the door where the girls exited and loudly invites them back in - only they have been replaced by Landa's soldiers.

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